Dual Spiral Wing

A concept from 2002 that was never completely analyzed due to control issues. This is similar to the single spiral duct, but with two ducts to assist in achieving roll control. The main difficulty of this concept is the difficulty of analysis due to the extreme coupling between the wing aerodynamics and propulsor - which invalidates simple aero methods.

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Автор romain legall (5 месяцев)

Автор notessimodude (3 года)
But will it blend?

Автор jester444 (3 года)
This is a modern custer channel wing, right? Which NASA did documented and
studied several configuations in the 50/60's and conclude was practical.
Perhaps, If for certain events cause by Igor S. and other parties, it may
have found application. I do see have control should not be difficult if
you understand all the true forces at play. You have conand effect and with
vortex rings inthe mix. Counter rotating props 170HP, Maybe 20mph stall

Автор homebuiltindoorplane (2 года)
@NASAPAV How trustworthy is that what you wrote about the channel wing? Do
you have a lot of data regarding that design? Because my studies follow
closely what you wrote and I have never heard anyone else say that. So
thanks in advance!

Автор skorpen2 (2 года)
I agree, and with a transparent belly you would be able to see down/behind
wich must be a great advantage in combat, for example in inverted loop.

Автор NASAPAV (2 года)
These are just general comments I am making - you can't design anything
from them. You need to actually read the reports and look at the data, and
perform the complete design. But the numbers I quoted are facts - which are
not necessarily extensible if the geometry is changed (which I have
certainly done in my designs). The reports do not conclusively show a
working solution - they show intriguing results, and unique problems that
need to be overcome - that's the engineering...

Автор kyl64 (1 год)
And yes, I realize the video demonstrated that you could lay back instead.
It's just the FYI portion of prone vs. lying back is what's being debated.
(Since the pilot took off laying prone.)

Автор holy-terrorist platinium (8 месяцев)
Holy-Terrorist:>*=* Super!

Автор cedric199870 (2 года)
why wont they just build one and then test it and then sell it for lots of
thousands of €?

Автор skorpen2 (4 года)
brilliant design!

Автор tom jones (1 год)
actually this debatee has basically been put to rest a long time ago.
people are just not comfortable with either position for flying and the
human body just dose not orient itself very well spacially form either of
those positions for things like rolls inverted flight banking looping and
any of the meriad of positions that flying requires. dont feel right=dont
use it we can argue the scientific mumbo jumbo for ever but that is the
reason check the f16 seating and controls

Автор NASAPAV (2 года)
I have more Channel Wing data than anyone on the planet (except maybe Curly
Custer). There were many problems with the channel wing, such as asymmeric
prop loading, lip stall, poor aerodynamic efficiency, etc. Yes, wind tunnel
tests showed the channel section would not stall all the way out to about
45 degrees, where max lift was generated (with a Clmax ~ 26 demonstrated -
because power is going into the lift).

Автор NASAPAV (2 года)
I don't understand your point - this is not a fighter aircraft. Besides,
you agree that you can get to higher g (and I already have the Gloster
Meteor reports that substantiate this). That is a significant advantage.
Visibility is secondary if you can pull a higher g in combat due to heads
up displays, etc. So I disagree with your conclusion, based on the evidence
that is available.

Автор Shawn Raymond (2 года)
The Custer Channel wing flew very well. It's major problem is that it is
out of the norm in appearance. As a UAV, appearance is not an issue, rather
performance is. I think it has to has an angle of attack of 45% at take off
and landing for maximum payload lift.

Автор narutolong97 (3 года)
when I looked at the design.I can see that there's no upward lift at all.
Maybe It's better to make the fans act like a gyroscope and upwards like a
double bladed chopper than a plane.

Автор Rex Holes (2 года)
@MrROTD oh and put some elestabilerons near the rear to give some control,
just little ones,maybe a canard on the nose too why not? your welcome.

Автор NASAPAV (2 года)
Actually, if you read the research papers on prone piloting, one of the key
advantages of prone is the ability to go to higher g's before blacking out.
The military did quite a few experiments on this back in the 1950's during
the Pogo days. But prone has other disadvantages...

Автор NASAPAV (4 года)
I am certainly not patronizing you, sorry if my response came across that
way. Since the 'wings' or ducts have propellers in them, it is by
definition powered-lift. Yes, there is control about all axes, with pitch,
roll and yaw effectors. Actually there are several stability and control
deficits in this particular model that do require attention.

Автор towerkeeper117 (3 года)
Is the takeoff supposed to be that quick? The climb seems very steep for
such a low speed and quick takeoff.

Автор NeoNinjas (2 года)
ill take mine in green please.

Автор NASAPAV (2 года)
Never heard of this. This design is one of our older ones (from 2002), so
maybe they saw it. Since it is govt work, there is no copyright to any of
the work and it is open for public use - so good on them if they did.

Автор RayTV100 (2 года)
@suprTOONCES Its funny cause it's called dual spiral wing XDXD

Автор Niklas Potter (2 года)
Someone has been playing way to much escape velocity. This is a Krait!

Автор MrCOLTSR2 (2 года)
The uk military did the first major research using a converted Gloster
Meteor F8 "Prone Pilot" conversion..google it, its good for high G but
rubbish for any serious dogfighting as the pilot cannot turn his head to
look behind him or on his 4 or 8.......a major disadvantage in high g
dogfights!..one reason no prone fighters exist today..its a red
herring!..now pilots sit back in an inclined position..

Автор SaintJorge304 (1 год)
This seems like a huge neck strain after a few hours....

Автор octopusmagnificens (3 года)
Engine malfunction and you are dead.

Автор Ron Armstrong (11 месяцев)
A new variant of the Heinkel Wespe.

Автор kyl64 (1 год)
He argues that the prone position (stomach down) limits physical
visibility. A human pilot might feel a bit uneasy not being able to see
with his own eyes. He suggested that pilots lie back instead. This still
maintains the advantage of higher G sustainability, yet the pilot still has
full peripherals. The glass cockpit is usually up, whereas prone would make
it behind them.

Автор Sam King (2 года)
@octopusmagnificens So, not that different from a helicopter then. They
seem to be acceptable!

Автор ryan lemons (2 года)
@suprTOONCES need a parachute recovery system damn it all these designs are
nothing but flaws!!

Автор toolbaggers (2 года)
cant handle too many g's in that position

Автор Gerald Molett (3 года)
I see One serious flaw when people are on their elbows to long they tend to
begin to faulter which can be a serious issue if there were a way to allow
people to lay on their back and use a video camera to see that would fix a
lot of problems and prevent possible injuries

Автор MikeRosePro (1 год)
Unwind those pretty-curved wings and stick them out straight each side,
check the aerofoil for optimal lift/drag thingy then you'll have a really
brilliant airplane.... you might even sell the concept to some BigBoy
like....er, NASA

Автор FlugelHorn117 (7 месяцев)
@NASAPAV, or anyone who knows the answer, what is the purpose of the
spiraled "wings" around the props?

Автор Rex Holes (2 года)
This looks more feasable than the single rotor one though I'm no scientist
I have built many unusual rc planes of my own design :D

Автор Clyde Craft (8 месяцев)
i came because i saw somthing that looked like kerbal space program runway

Автор TheSweetPinkBerry (2 года)
i wil this Dual Spiral Wing.

Автор Shawn Raymond (2 года)
Is the Channel wing of little use? Rather, I think it is a great STOL.
Asymmeric prop load, I would guess is already solved by your design of a
duct. Lip stall, is simply a limitation to angle of attack verses air
speed, I'm guessing easily solved with computer fight controls. Poor
aerodynamic efficiency is only relative to what you are comparing it too,
Helicopter, sailplane? As a STOL the Channel 'seems' to be efficient
compared to any standard STOL with slots and flaps. Channel Bush!

Автор NASAPAV (4 года)
The duct act as non planar wings of relatively low span. Since it is
powered-lift at low speed, the need for large span to decrease induced span
during climb is not a concern. At cruise the ideal span would be about 14'
for this weight vehicle, so it is a bit sub-optimal. You are simply used to
seeing large span non-powered lift vehicles, and basing your opinion on a
simple extrapolation of existing concepts - which is not valid.

Автор Ron Armstrong (1 год)
Can we say Heinkel Wespe?

Автор Psychotol (1 месяц)
wouldn't a computer assisted control system have sorted the control issues
or was this uncontrollable even with such a system?

Also I like you can operate it Minbari style.

Автор KOMRAD8 (3 месяца)
здесь мало места, чтобы лететь сидя? Пилот не сможет достаточно долго в
таком положении голову держать. Шансы выжить при аварии стремятся к нулю.

Автор matt Demirelx (7 месяцев)

Автор Дэн Петров (7 месяцев)

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