Air Traffic Control: Near Miss at JFK

An Aerogal Boeing 767 attempts to land on the wrong runway at New York's JFK airport, nearly colliding with a Jetblue rolling for take off. The tower air traffic controller sorts it out and a collision is averted. Audio from Liveatc.net.

The Aerogal had been cleared for a Parkway Visual Approach (Canarsie Approach) to runway 13L and had subsequently been cleared to land on 13L. The procedure resembles circling procedures such as the legendary Kai Tak IGS to 13, albeit with less drama due to the absence of mountainous terrain.
Once at the Canarsie VOR, planes fly a 041 heading along the Shore Parkway (the main visual reference) and then begin a right turn to either 13R or 13L (typically 13L is used because it is a wider, easier turn). The primary visual aid, especially at night, is provided by clusters of lead-in lights. The first cluster is approximately 2 miles from the threshold of 13R.
When cleared for 13L, pilots begin a slight right turn at the first cluster, then follow two more clusters and initiate a tight right turn to line up with the runway, where the fourth and last cluster of lights is located. This video gives you an idea of what it looks like at night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZXgIVkI8gQ
Now, to line up for 13R, pilots must have initiated a tight right turn at the first cluster to enter a 2 mile final. For the Delta pilots on the ground to spot the mistake, the plane must have been already lined up with 13R, so it could not have been much more than a mile away. By the time Delta warned the tower and the controller issued the go-around, the Aerogal must have been quite close to the threshold.

Un piloto de Aerogal confunde pista 13L por 13R y casi ocasiona un serio accidente.

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Комментарии: 154

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Автор TheClassiestFox (858 лет назад)
Those Aerogal pilots have no idea what they're doing. Fuckwit.

Автор Joe Patroni ( назад)
Aerogal 700 pull up and go around. Fly heading 200 and maintain 2000 feet.
End of story. ...Fucktard controller.

Автор cmdmd ( назад)
Sometimes comms are not very clear for every pilot. I can understand him
fine, but I would have asked him to repeat a couple of transmissions for

Автор Brian Wong ( назад)
This isn't a "near miss". If you nearly missed, it means you fucking
crashed! This is a near hit. 

Автор Thomas Bolko ( назад)
No matter what the pilot of the heavy recognized that he was cleared for
13L. So you can't say that he didn't understand the controller because he
apparently did.

Автор iu hoosier ( назад)
Joe Cool Controller, Steve Abraham shows in this tape why he is not as Cool
as he thinks he is. There is a reason there are windows in towers. That
is to look out of them to see what your traffic is doing. Obviously Joe
Cool was too busy doing something else and had to have a pilot do his job
for him. Nice call Delta, too bad Cool Steve did not catch what he was
supposed to. Then when he is given the heads up by Delta Mr Joe Cool loses
his shit and becomes Mr Nervous Controller. This guy should have been
pulled from position and sent downstairs to think about his job and why he
is paid $150,000 per year. As you can tell, all the pilots on the
frequency do not trust Mr Joe Cool Steve and start questions all of his
calls after this stunt. So much for Mr Joe Cool Controller . You are a
disgrace to our profession AU REVOIR Steve.

Автор Daniel Arturo Charry Meneses ( назад)
Yeah what you like - Position and Hold!

Love this man at Tower :)


Автор exx66 ( назад)
Who put that slow idiot in charge of a HEAVY?

Автор Emery Board ( назад)
aerogal left the frequency at 3:25 and gets called at 3:41. Is the
controler AWAKE?

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
BTW JFK has missed approach procedures which are clearly published as with
controlled airports. So the pilot should have already known what to do if
he had to do a missed approach. But, you should already know this if you
FLY right? haha. also I didn't know the TONE in someones voice over a radio
could be considered unprofessional js. 

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
LMAO #22 huh 2012 JFK ranked #17 in the WORLD. I don't know about you but I
would say that is BUSY. When would you give a timely alt correction? After
he just starts to climb to any given alt and then tell him "oh btw I need
you to stop there". NO. The alt was given at the correct time. It is given
in the missed approach, which is what the controller did. Told him to
cancel his approach and told him to climb to a given alt. 

Автор Dimsumdimsum1 ( назад)
Whats wrong with french people?

Автор Joel Nilsson Hedekäll ( назад)
I understand there is a logic behind it but the logic doesn't always
conform to practice. Isn't it absolutely evident here that 13L should be
called 13L and 13R should be called 14R. Yes, there would be 2 logical
runways on one physical but at least the risk of disaster is lowered. The
language barrier is shit - it must be taken in consideration when naming
stuff. Some pilots dont seem to know english. You could even throw color
names in there or whatever. More unique names, less misstakes.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
So it took you weeks to say that controllers and pilots both have assholes.
not everyone at JFK is an asshole. As i keep saying when you have a shit
load of acft that you need to get out of your airport then you would
understand that they dont have time for fuck ups. Whats funny is you seem
to stand by the pilot like he did nothing wrong this whole time. He lined
is what this is called not controller is an asshole. 

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
Like Ive said why dont you fly into JFK if you actually fly which i doubt
you do. If you do fly you are probably just some single engine rated kid
who flies around his airport and thinks you know everything about flying.
BTW when you have 3 airports all within 10 miles of each other then as a
pilot fucking up and lining up for the wrong rwy and then passing thru an
alt you were told to stop at is a big fucking deal. No matter which way you
cut it the PILOT fucked up. 

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
1st im not a controller in NYC. 2nd like ive said before there are
controllers AND pilots with attitudes. I think your taking him being loud
for having an attitude. As for the plain language being used he was correct
and nothing wrong with that. Im pretty sure you dont fly anywhere I really
do bc if you did then you would have OBVIOUSLY heard a controller with an
attitude somewhere. So do us all a favor and STOP trying to act like you
know what you are talking about. 

Автор ModanoTheBest ( назад)
Runways are named based on the direction they are pointed and how they are
positioned adjacent to other runways. With parallel runways, 13L and 13R
are pointed at heading 130, roughly southeast, with the L and R designating
left and right. The pilot was simply in information overload. The
controller tells him 13L, he reads back 13L, then lines up for 13R. Then he
blows through his altitude on the go-around. These are basic mistakes that
you would expect from a trainee in a Cessna, not a 767.

Автор Joel Nilsson Hedekäll ( назад)
Isnt it kinda stupid to name the runways with the same number with only a
suffix in the end? Miss hearing 13R or 13L should not be able to kill
hundress of people.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
just a lil fyi there is NO PROPER phraseology to tell someone they are
lined up for the wrong rwy. Controller did what he HAD to do to prevent an
accident plain and simple. That's why they are some of the best in the
business bc they get the job done

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
What small talk was he giving to that pilot. He gave him a simple
instruction and he still couldn't follow it. Told him to stop at 2k and he
went passed it. So therefore pilot wasn't doing his job and could have
caused an accident. Ppl are so quick to jump on atc like they are always
the cause of. Again, pilot fucked up by lining up for the wrong rwy. pretty
sure approach didn't tell him to line up for it. 

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
I understand that controllers and pilots alike all have an attitude. Fact
of the matter is he lined up for the wrong rwy. That's no on elses fault
but the pilot/co-pilot. He told him to climb and maintain 2000 and the
pilot was passing 2400 when the controller told him to stop. And as per the
FAA 7110.65 you may use plain language in place of standard phraseology
when needed. 

Автор dfc99nyc ( назад)
JFK very quick and professional. Good job.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
Hate to say it but it could be used the other way around always. If the
controller gets a lil over excited or has a lil more volume in his in voice
its for a reason. Its not like he was yelling or anything but I do
understand what you are saying. The pilot/co-pilot shouldn't be getting
more stressed out if they do then they also would need to find a different

Автор Searay.rs ( назад)
It'[s not only them. Almost all airlines from the spanish speaking area
should be banned from US airspace. Iberia,AeroGal,Avianca...etc Iberia
nearly caused the crash at the rw at JFK cause the flight crew was NOT
SPEAKING English at all....How idiotic is that? And everywhere thay arrive
(Iberia) thay cause a problem or even an emergancy. I would realy like to
hear some atc from europe with them involved...that would be intresting. 

Автор phillyslasher ( назад)
LOL the Jet Blue at 3:30 sounds like that guy who awkwardly chimes in after
two people have been in a noisy argument.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
You would be pissed off to if you had severl aircraft taking off from one
runway and another 100pd aircraft wanted to landed on the same one.
Controller wasnt cranky as you say. You must have skipped over the 1st part
of this video bc he was calm until the pilot decided to line up for the
wrong runway. Then not listening to a simple 180 heading and altitude both
of which came out clear and concise. 

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
If you worked at an extremely busy airport that deals with SEVERAL aircraft
from different countries and they dont listen to simple rules you would be
pissed off to. 

Автор Christopher Carlyon ( назад)
listening to some of these pilots with the language barrier i am surprised
there aren't more incidents

Автор nuke mecca ( назад)
i don't think that guy knows what he's doing.

Автор flyer737sw ( назад)
And that is the reason why you are trained to look at the approach end and
departure ends of the runway before taking the active.

Автор Jerry Shen ( назад)
Delta Pilot's have good eyes! I just heard them catching a blown tire in
another video and now this! 

Автор Brad Williams ( назад)
AeroGal should be banned from US airspace

Автор david lewis ( назад)
the controlers did nothing wrong in the Avainca crash The pilot never
declared a fuel emergency which is the proper procedure. I am very sorry
for the loss of life The controllers that day had alto to deal with with
bad weather. They are not mind readers. 

Автор GTAGIS ( назад)
Thanks for your explanations. Thanks for sharing your experience, I do
better understand why the pilot feel like lost !

Автор GTAGIS ( назад)
It was former company Avianca Ecuador !

Автор Mark Emanuele ( назад)
(Continuation)The ry that was lit seemed to be the Wrong one. at the time
TEB twr was closed but FSS was operating on the tower freq. I looked out of
my window and saw a big EASTERN AIR LINES sign, and knew I was at the wrong
airport. I went back to apc freq, and a very embarressed controller was
waiting nervously for me to come back. He vectored me to Newark (EWR) by
mistake. Thank God it was 3AM and not 3PM. 

Автор Mark Emanuele ( назад)
I will NEVER FORGET the first flight after getting my license. I was flying
out of TEB, and I flew to AVP and back. On the way back I got cleared thru
the NY TCA (as it was then called). It was very late (about 3am) and the
controller was vectoring me around, and I was not quite sure where I was.
They handed me off to TEB tower, but gave me EWR's Tower freq. I called
TEB, and asked for RY lights on the ry they cleared me on (What I say
outside was not right) (COntinued)

Автор AV8R ( назад)
good catch Delta

Автор notafanboy (1523 года назад)
Good catch. Also, it took tower almost a full minute to give Aerogal an
altitude to climb to after issuing the initial go-around instruction. The
climb through 2000 is a very quick one during a takeoff or go-around and
easy to bust if tower doesn't assign it right away. Of course, Aerogal
could have questioned the controller, as well. Unfortunately, as good as
these controllers here in NY are, they're still humans. 

Автор kewkabe ( назад)
The controller made it worse by telling him "fly runway heading" (while
there was somebody rolling down the runway), then in the same transmission
"you need to start a right turn" (which is non-standard phraseology and
likely to be confused especially with foreign pilots). He should have said
"go around, fly heading 180." And yes I'm a controller.

Автор Daniel Mori ( назад)
Four clusters of lead-in lights going for the left side, two clusters for
the right side. I suppose those are the best references for pilots flying
the approach.

Автор Mark Emanuele ( назад)
I have flown that approach many times, and the first time I did, it was a
little confusing as to where the runway was. Ry 13 L is quite a distance
from 13 R. Still no excuse, If you look at the approach plate it becomes
obvious which is which especially when you look for the approach lights...

Автор IdTube ( назад)
Now, that is a bad place to realize that you don't know how to distinguish
left from right =).

Автор Lucas Wolfrey ( назад)
YUP, they've been using the same ATC system since the early 60's i believe.
But not to worry, the FAA will implement a new system... eventually

Автор RIXLAZZZ ( назад)
lol he is pissed at that french pilot

Автор Edward Francis Hayes ( назад)
lol. george carlin?

Автор babytweeze85 ( назад)
Why do they title it/call it a "near miss"? It's a near HIT. A COLLISION is
a 'near miss'. *BOOM* Oh look, they nearly missed....

Автор radtech21 ( назад)
"You make a mistake, you start thinking about the mistake, you begin to
make more and more errors. This is a very familiar syndrome. We call it
'checkitis' in aviation." -John Nance From 37:48 on PBS Nova's "The
Deadliest Plane Crash."

Автор radtech21 ( назад)
@efastMixer Yeah, I noticed that as well, BIG F* up by the Aerogal pilots
but definitely NOT helped by conflicting ATC instructions.

Автор marchesedesade89 ( назад)
For people who has in mind hundreds of checklists and who's able to fly a
plane, a left or right mistake is HUGE!

Автор tiverton (1758 лет назад)
The nicer you are to New Yorkers the more they will be rude to you. You
have talk to them the same aggressive way as they talk to you from the
start, then they treat you with respect. JFK, and entire New York Approach
for that matter, are no different.

Автор Jerzy Daszkiewicz ( назад)
How much ATController average salary at such airport? Job seems to be a
little bit stressful. 

Автор Martin Riviere ( назад)
I feel bad for this guy, in the airport im training a private pilot lost
his license because he crossed the line! he was told to hold short runway
13 and he crossed it, so i dont know what happened to this guy, i guess he
lost his license or at least he got grounded, you can't mistake runways
like that, anyway this pilots were flying an old 767 from ecuador. Any
pilot that flies that 767 for about 8 hours has to be really tired at the
end, he was really scared the atc wasn't helping the guy :(

Автор ProPainC63 ( назад)
Welcome to NY bitch. 

Автор Marco g ( назад)
the pilot of the airline removed the license by the civil aviation
authority of Ecuador

Автор Darth Belal ( назад)
@msk7046 what it means is that the Aerogal pilot has to talk to the ATC and
the Controller is going to give him one hell of a verbal ass-beating. I'm
serious, that Aerogal pilot is going to go home with teeth marks and DEEP
boot impressions all over his ass. I'd hate to be him!

Автор Jonathan S. ( назад)
Wait, is that guy the same as the Egyptian guy for the other near miss at
/watch?v=Wtlfmvbp2jo ??? I think so, what an idiot OMG

Автор Jonathan S. ( назад)
I think this happens every day, too busy airport just a matter of time for
a collission CAN'T be averted!

Автор fastfiddler1625 ( назад)
To the guy who mentioned this. The phraseology "Line up and wait" has
replaced "position and hold". I don't know why, to me "position and hold"
sounds more professional.

Автор jfsa380 ( назад)
those aerogal pilots are like, "wait, what?" they are soooo slooooow

Автор comcfi ( назад)

Автор James' Adventures ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals Being a pilot myself, the FAA changed this back in the fall
of 2010. The reason for this is that everyone else in the world uses "Line
up and wait." Being part of ICAO, we strive to have consistency throughout
aviation around the world. Also, because english is not some of the pilots'
first language, "Line up and wait" is clearer and more direct, believe it
or not.

Автор FlyingPhoAddict ( назад)
@msk7046 Yeah tower told him to call so this guy could complain more.

Автор Mike Stephens ( назад)
@Eheld786 ---May I ask what that means? ('I bet that guy got the phone
number to call')..... Thanks.

Автор risen25 ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals how long did it take you to find out how to use the words
profound and sophistication in a sentence. 

Автор oneofthemdeals ( назад)
@zseartcc25 u just showed who's child like with those classy profound words
u just came up with. u showed a lot of sophistication.

Автор risen25 ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals LOLOL so let me guess your some wanna pilot who has never
touched the controls of an aircraft and who thinks he knows all right? Im
guessing your some young 16 year old prick kid who has no clue what the
fuck he is talking about. I answered your question grow some nuts and take
it vagina. get real. Only kids make comments like that on youtube.

Автор oneofthemdeals ( назад)
@zseartcc25 tell me something i dont f-ing know - jackass

Автор risen25 ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals FAA new REG. All Airports across the country does it. 

Автор TheRaptor3945 ( назад)
At 2:39, it looks like the AF011 pilot voice. Maybe it's not... but it
looks like a voice with a little french accent.

Автор oneofthemdeals (817 лет назад)
@rjmwebdesign you can stop looking like a hero. i got ALL the comments
about line up and wait. no need to jump in and flood my inbox with someone
i already know

Автор Hayden Young ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals They Changed it Line up is corect 

Автор mmissthangg1 ( назад)
it just goes to show that pilots have to be the eyes and ear for each other

Автор AJ Heiser ( назад)
it sounded like Aerogal was about to cry. damn i would be haha.

Автор Eheld786 ( назад)
I bet that guy got "the phone number to call"

Автор daniel smoleń ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals Line up and Wait is used allover the world, it looks like
it will be in use in USA too.

Автор notafanboy ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals They switched to ICAO phraseology. I think this change
happened in the US in 2009 or 2010. No more "position and hold."

Автор Michael Jackson ( назад)
que verguenza!

Автор DynastyLang ( назад)
jfk controllers is on it lol

Автор oneofthemdeals ( назад)
@sioux0863 i get the picture now. no need to reply and be repetitive

Автор TheRaptor3945 ( назад)
Same in France. When a plane isn't directly cleared for take-off, ATC
always say "line up and wait". If the delta pilot hasn't noticed the
mistake of the Aerogal pilot, this could have been a new air crash
investigation story. Congrats to delta pilot for his awareness !

Автор Jose Andres Rivera ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals Rules changed, no more position and hold intructions, it
created hesitation that could lead to an accident

Автор connellrocraymond ( назад)
outcha pilot of delta 122. Quick thinking indeed. ATC did well too.
Potential disaster avoided. 

Автор flyingtrashbin ( назад)
@Quillons1 yeah, i trust your opinion since it has been carefully
considered. let it be so, they both shitted there in the cockpit. i guess
there are lots of pilots like these as long as they go on making safe
landings while confusing left to right.

Автор Quillons1 ( назад)
@flyingtrashbin The initial "mistake" is one thing, a bad one but
forgivable. Not following clear instructions to turn, maintain altitude,
and switch frequencies is all indicative of someone floding under pressure.
The guy bailed out and panicked under a little bit of strain. As someone
who flies that airspace often I can tell you, this wasn't one mistake he
made. This guy should be violated.

Автор jbskies ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals FAA decided to use the ICAO phraselogy "line up and wait"
starting from 2010-9-30

Автор flyingtrashbin ( назад)
@shane95670 sounds like you're a pilot for many years and surely know that
going around in such heavy traffic and stress conditions is as easy as
bicycle ride? besides they probably had before landing briefing about
go-around procedures and when the controller tells you "oh, turn somewhere
right..immediately!" it's such a mess. the pilot did a mistake but we all
do. its easy to complain when you're seating at home, not at the controls
of the jet liner that is about to collide with another one

Автор shane95670 ( назад)
sounds to me like the areogal pilot needs to go back to school to learn how
to follow instructions. steve instructed him 3 times to climb to 2000 and
maintain. and 2 times to make a 180 heading and twice for 200 and twice to
turn right.... what a shame.

Автор Sean H ( назад)
"Line up and wait" is the new policy in the USA. The rest of the ATC world
uses "Line up and wait" so the USA decided to change the verbage to be in
uniform with the rest of the world.

Автор Diego Hernandez ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals please can you post the edited part? 

Автор Arelis Toral ( назад)
what a shame on Ecuador..!.. Aerogal´s pilot didnt understand the
instruction 3times.. shouldnt flight there if he doesnt speak english so
good!.. ATC speaks clearly..!

Автор dacmone ( назад)
I just found out about aerogal inccident today, this is bad for aerogal...i
can see where this is going probably FAA will blame this pilot for not
meeting the english language requirements.

Автор ualtim ( назад)
Line Up and Wait is replacing Taxi into position and hold to conform to
ICAO standards. Apparently, some folks were confusing "taxi into position
and hold" with taxi into position and go so the verbiage has been changed.

Автор Yorran Slik ( назад)
First it was KLM645, then it was KL644? :)

Автор Jake Stanley ( назад)
That was a close one - thats all I can say! I have there App on my iPhone.

Автор oneofthemdeals ( назад)
have you noticed now the JFK controllers now use the wording "Line up &
Wait" rather than "position and hold" i wonder why? - i ve noticed
listening to Haneda (Japan) ATC they too use "line up & wait" phrase. 

Автор oneofthemdeals ( назад)
ahh. you missed the part where the aerogal pilot got the wrong freq.. i
remember listening to this. this occured on a Sunday evening. that pilot
was all mixed up...lol steve is one of my favorite controllers. he's got a
great sense of humor...

Автор skazhiprivet ( назад)
Wow... I wouldn´t wanna fly with them!

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