Air Traffic Control: Near Miss at JFK

An Aerogal Boeing 767 attempts to land on the wrong runway at New York's JFK airport, nearly colliding with a Jetblue rolling for take off. The tower air traffic controller sorts it out and a collision is averted. Audio from Liveatc.net.

The Aerogal had been cleared for a Parkway Visual Approach (Canarsie Approach) to runway 13L and had subsequently been cleared to land on 13L. The procedure resembles circling procedures such as the legendary Kai Tak IGS to 13, albeit with less drama due to the absence of mountainous terrain.
Once at the Canarsie VOR, planes fly a 041 heading along the Shore Parkway (the main visual reference) and then begin a right turn to either 13R or 13L (typically 13L is used because it is a wider, easier turn). The primary visual aid, especially at night, is provided by clusters of lead-in lights. The first cluster is approximately 2 miles from the threshold of 13R.
When cleared for 13L, pilots begin a slight right turn at the first cluster, then follow two more clusters and initiate a tight right turn to line up with the runway, where the fourth and last cluster of lights is located. This video gives you an idea of what it looks like at night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZXgIVkI8gQ
Now, to line up for 13R, pilots must have initiated a tight right turn at the first cluster to enter a 2 mile final. For the Delta pilots on the ground to spot the mistake, the plane must have been already lined up with 13R, so it could not have been much more than a mile away. By the time Delta warned the tower and the controller issued the go-around, the Aerogal must have been quite close to the threshold.

Un piloto de Aerogal confunde pista 13L por 13R y casi ocasiona un serio accidente.

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Автор TheClassiestFox (858 лет назад)
Those Aerogal pilots have no idea what they're doing. Fuckwit.

Автор Joe Patroni ( назад)
Aerogal 700 pull up and go around. Fly heading 200 and maintain 2000 feet.
End of story. ...Fucktard controller.

Автор cmdmd ( назад)
Sometimes comms are not very clear for every pilot. I can understand him
fine, but I would have asked him to repeat a couple of transmissions for

Автор Brian Wong ( назад)
This isn't a "near miss". If you nearly missed, it means you fucking
crashed! This is a near hit. 

Автор Thomas Bolko ( назад)
No matter what the pilot of the heavy recognized that he was cleared for
13L. So you can't say that he didn't understand the controller because he
apparently did.

Автор iu hoosier ( назад)
Joe Cool Controller, Steve Abraham shows in this tape why he is not as Cool
as he thinks he is. There is a reason there are windows in towers. That
is to look out of them to see what your traffic is doing. Obviously Joe
Cool was too busy doing something else and had to have a pilot do his job
for him. Nice call Delta, too bad Cool Steve did not catch what he was
supposed to. Then when he is given the heads up by Delta Mr Joe Cool loses
his shit and becomes Mr Nervous Controller. This guy should have been
pulled from position and sent downstairs to think about his job and why he
is paid $150,000 per year. As you can tell, all the pilots on the
frequency do not trust Mr Joe Cool Steve and start questions all of his
calls after this stunt. So much for Mr Joe Cool Controller . You are a
disgrace to our profession AU REVOIR Steve.

Автор Daniel Charry ( назад)
Yeah what you like - Position and Hold!

Love this man at Tower :)


Автор exx66 ( назад)
Who put that slow idiot in charge of a HEAVY?

Автор Mark Jackson ( назад)
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Автор Emery Board ( назад)
aerogal left the frequency at 3:25 and gets called at 3:41. Is the
controler AWAKE?

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
BTW JFK has missed approach procedures which are clearly published as with
controlled airports. So the pilot should have already known what to do if
he had to do a missed approach. But, you should already know this if you
FLY right? haha. also I didn't know the TONE in someones voice over a radio
could be considered unprofessional js.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
LMAO #22 huh 2012 JFK ranked #17 in the WORLD. I don't know about you but I
would say that is BUSY. When would you give a timely alt correction? After
he just starts to climb to any given alt and then tell him "oh btw I need
you to stop there". NO. The alt was given at the correct time. It is given
in the missed approach, which is what the controller did. Told him to
cancel his approach and told him to climb to a given alt.

Автор plsniper ( назад)
Very true. As for New York controllers, many of them are assholes. This one
definitely was not one of them.

Автор plsniper ( назад)
I flew out of FRG, but I worked at JFK. Had my scanner with me often and
screw ups happen every day. Not as big as this one, but plenty of minor

Автор Dimsumdimsum1 ( назад)
Whats wrong with french people?

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
This makes no sense to me. How would 14R be any safer than 13R?

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
Seriously Bigdawg, it's you in the video isn't it?

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
Seriously Bigdawg, it's you in the video isn't it?

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
You obviously haven't read anything I've posted. Go read my FIRST post
where you then jumped in the game. I acknowledged the crew error. What I
said was, the controller's tone, unprofessional non-standard language, and
failure to give a timely altitude made an already unsafe situation worse.
And yes, showing the world your very own words posted here, proves JFK
controllers are the biggest assholes in the business. Sorry the truth
hurts. JFK, big airport? haha It's #22 by aircraft movements.

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
You obviously haven't read anything I've posted. Go read my FIRST post
where you then jumped in the game. I acknowledged the crew error. What I
said was, the controller's tone, unprofessional non-standard language, and
failure to give a timely altitude made an already unsafe situation worse.
And yes, showing the world your very own words posted here, proves JFK
controllers are the biggest assholes in the business. Sorry the truth
hurts. JFK, big airport? haha It's #22 by aircraft movements.

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
You obviously haven't read anything I've posted. Go read my FIRST post
where you then jumped in the game. I acknowledged the crew error. What I
said was, the controller's tone, unprofessional non-standard language, and
failure to give a timely altitude made an already unsafe situation worse.
And yes, showing the world your very own words posted here, proves JFK
controllers are the biggest assholes in the business. Sorry the truth
hurts. JFK, big airport? haha It's #22 by aircraft movements.

Автор Joel Nilsson Hedekäll ( назад)
I understand there is a logic behind it but the logic doesn't always
conform to practice. Isn't it absolutely evident here that 13L should be
called 13L and 13R should be called 14R. Yes, there would be 2 logical
runways on one physical but at least the risk of disaster is lowered. The
language barrier is shit - it must be taken in consideration when naming
stuff. Some pilots dont seem to know english. You could even throw color
names in there or whatever. More unique names, less misstakes.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
So it took you weeks to say that controllers and pilots both have assholes.
not everyone at JFK is an asshole. As i keep saying when you have a shit
load of acft that you need to get out of your airport then you would
understand that they dont have time for fuck ups. Whats funny is you seem
to stand by the pilot like he did nothing wrong this whole time. He lined
is what this is called not controller is an asshole.

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
I have flown into JFK numerous times. I was NYC based and had to cover EWR,
LGA, and JFK flights. I've been around the A and B loop, lined up and down
along 13L and number 60-something for takeoff during SWAP. I have 8 type
ratings, two airlines under my belt, flew heavies in the military. I've
also been a check airman and instructor on two different airplanes. I stand
by my assertion that this controller added to an unsafe situation. JFK
controllers are assholes and so are many Capts.

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
Dude, this just simply isn't FACTUALLY CORRECT. Listen to the tape again.
The controller didn't assign the altitude in the initial Go Around calls. A
heavy aircraft at landing weights can exceed 4000 feet per minute. Once you
are on your way with go-around thrust and climbing, having a controller say
"stop it at 2000 feet" way too late.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
Like Ive said why dont you fly into JFK if you actually fly which i doubt
you do. If you do fly you are probably just some single engine rated kid
who flies around his airport and thinks you know everything about flying.
BTW when you have 3 airports all within 10 miles of each other then as a
pilot fucking up and lining up for the wrong rwy and then passing thru an
alt you were told to stop at is a big fucking deal. No matter which way you
cut it the PILOT fucked up.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
1st im not a controller in NYC. 2nd like ive said before there are
controllers AND pilots with attitudes. I think your taking him being loud
for having an attitude. As for the plain language being used he was correct
and nothing wrong with that. Im pretty sure you dont fly anywhere I really
do bc if you did then you would have OBVIOUSLY heard a controller with an
attitude somewhere. So do us all a favor and STOP trying to act like you
know what you are talking about.

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
Sure there is. Listen, I hate to burst your bubble up there in NYC, the
controllers are assholes. You're notorious for that. The NYC attitude
causes unsafe conditions as represented beautifully in this video. There
are others online here too. I fly all around the world, I'd rather have the
Chinese controller who speaks engrish as opposed to some asshole controller
who gets excited. Looking at the comments, I'm not alone. (I'm done with

Автор ModanoTheBest ( назад)
Runways are named based on the direction they are pointed and how they are
positioned adjacent to other runways. With parallel runways, 13L and 13R
are pointed at heading 130, roughly southeast, with the L and R designating
left and right. The pilot was simply in information overload. The
controller tells him 13L, he reads back 13L, then lines up for 13R. Then he
blows through his altitude on the go-around. These are basic mistakes that
you would expect from a trainee in a Cessna, not a 767.

Автор Joel Nilsson Hedekäll ( назад)
Isnt it kinda stupid to name the runways with the same number with only a
suffix in the end? Miss hearing 13R or 13L should not be able to kill
hundress of people.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
just a lil fyi there is NO PROPER phraseology to tell someone they are
lined up for the wrong rwy. Controller did what he HAD to do to prevent an
accident plain and simple. That's why they are some of the best in the
business bc they get the job done

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
What small talk was he giving to that pilot. He gave him a simple
instruction and he still couldn't follow it. Told him to stop at 2k and he
went passed it. So therefore pilot wasn't doing his job and could have
caused an accident. Ppl are so quick to jump on atc like they are always
the cause of. Again, pilot fucked up by lining up for the wrong rwy. pretty
sure approach didn't tell him to line up for it.

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
Even though a regulation allows you to do something, it doesn't make it
safe. Maintaining a professional demeanor with a concise clearance,
deleting the small talk during a potentially very dangerous situation, is
paramount to safety.

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
Something tells me you are the ATC controller in question.

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
You are absolutely correct. The pilots made an error. He told directed them
to climb to 2000 feet a full one minute after the first go around call. An
airliner can easily exceed 4000 feet per minute during GAs. Things happen
fast which is why they are the most intensive procedures to perform. The
controller should have issued the clearance sooner. And once the aircraft
has gained speed and momentum, you can't make it level off immediately
without possibly injuring aircraft of passengers.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
I understand that controllers and pilots alike all have an attitude. Fact
of the matter is he lined up for the wrong rwy. That's no on elses fault
but the pilot/co-pilot. He told him to climb and maintain 2000 and the
pilot was passing 2400 when the controller told him to stop. And as per the
FAA 7110.65 you may use plain language in place of standard phraseology
when needed.

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
I've operated as a pilot internationally for nearly 20 years. Simply put,
there aren't any other controllers out there that are as big of assholes
like the JFK controllers. Look at all of the YouTube videos/recordings of
them online. I guess its that NY attitude (rolls eyes). The controller did
yell, departed from standard FAA or ICAO phraseology, and gave the altitude
restriction for the go-around very late resulting in the crew to over
shoot. Staying calm and professional is essential.

Автор dfc99nyc ( назад)
JFK very quick and professional. Good job.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
Hate to say it but it could be used the other way around always. If the
controller gets a lil over excited or has a lil more volume in his in voice
its for a reason. Its not like he was yelling or anything but I do
understand what you are saying. The pilot/co-pilot shouldn't be getting
more stressed out if they do then they also would need to find a different

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
This is exactly what is wrong here. If you are getting "pissed off" then
you need to find another profession. Professionals understand humans make
mistakes and pilots who native tongue isn't English are going to be hard to
understand and they're going to misinterpret what you've told them. This is
how professionals act. I don't have a problem with this controller getting
excited; however, his excitation might have contributed to the stress among
the aircrew and further created more problems.

Автор Searay.rs ( назад)
It'[s not only them. Almost all airlines from the spanish speaking area
should be banned from US airspace. Iberia,AeroGal,Avianca...etc Iberia
nearly caused the crash at the rw at JFK cause the flight crew was NOT
SPEAKING English at all....How idiotic is that? And everywhere thay arrive
(Iberia) thay cause a problem or even an emergancy. I would realy like to
hear some atc from europe with them involved...that would be intresting.

Автор phillyslasher ( назад)
LOL the Jet Blue at 3:30 sounds like that guy who awkwardly chimes in after
two people have been in a noisy argument.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
You would be pissed off to if you had severl aircraft taking off from one
runway and another 100pd aircraft wanted to landed on the same one.
Controller wasnt cranky as you say. You must have skipped over the 1st part
of this video bc he was calm until the pilot decided to line up for the
wrong runway. Then not listening to a simple 180 heading and altitude both
of which came out clear and concise.

Автор bigdawg8369 ( назад)
If you worked at an extremely busy airport that deals with SEVERAL aircraft
from different countries and they dont listen to simple rules you would be
pissed off to.

Автор Christopher Carlyon ( назад)
listening to some of these pilots with the language barrier i am surprised
there aren't more incidents

Автор dc1030guy ( назад)
I agree 100%. The New York controllers get overly excited very easily.
Sure, this pilot made a mistake. But the system worked. Somebody caught the
mistake and pointed it out to everyone. Go-arounds are demanding because
the pilots' aren't usually expecting them. Throw in a cranky controller,
and the cockpit stress becomes extremely high. I believe this controller
actually creates an unsafe situation by getting upset and scaring the

Автор nuke mecca ( назад)
i don't think that guy knows what he's doing.

Автор flyer737sw ( назад)
And that is the reason why you are trained to look at the approach end and
departure ends of the runway before taking the active.

Автор Jerry Shen ( назад)
Delta Pilot's have good eyes! I just heard them catching a blown tire in
another video and now this!

Автор Brad Williams ( назад)
AeroGal should be banned from US airspace

Автор mjl1966y ( назад)
You are correct, Avainca was to blame for not declaring the fuel emergency.
My point was that the attitude of some NY TRACON controllers comes across
as intimidating, which can make it more difficult for pilots to deal with
them assertively when necessary. You hear in this video how the pilot had
to kind of force the controller to accept the emergency. What would have
happened if the pilot had been hesitant to assert the emergency? Avainca
answers that question in at least one case.

Автор david lewis ( назад)
the controlers did nothing wrong in the Avainca crash The pilot never
declared a fuel emergency which is the proper procedure. I am very sorry
for the loss of life The controllers that day had alto to deal with with
bad weather. They are not mind readers.

Автор mjl1966y ( назад)
New York area controllers are notorious for their attitude. This is what
they sound like on pretty much any ATC video yo watch. Some pilots are
actually intimidated by them, which makes bad situations worse in some
cases. One pilot actually ran out of fuel before landing because he was
afraid of the controller.

Автор mjl1966y ( назад)
The only "automation" is the transponder information transmitted by the
aircraft to the controllers, which shows their altitude on the radar
display. Everything else is determined by the radar itself. Once you're
handed off to tower, it's pretty much all visual and radio. Radio is the
only means by which pilot communicate with ATC. This is to ensure positive
confirmation of instructions. Yes, it sounds that bad but most everything
is the same over and over, so you get used to it.

Автор mjl1966y ( назад)
Very curious why this would happen. 13L is used most of the time for
landing and 13R (the longer runway) is used most of the time for taking
off. This guy was cleared for the runway you would expect if you were
familiar with the Canarsie approach. Not only did he line up on the wrong
runway, but he lined up on the one you typically would NOT use. Very odd...
The challenge with the go-around is that he was well past the Missed
Approach Point so tower had to improvise the procedure.

Автор GTAGIS ( назад)
Thanks for your explanations. Thanks for sharing your experience, I do
better understand why the pilot feel like lost !

Автор GTAGIS ( назад)
It was former company Avianca Ecuador !

Автор Mark Emanuele ( назад)
(Continuation)The ry that was lit seemed to be the Wrong one. at the time
TEB twr was closed but FSS was operating on the tower freq. I looked out of
my window and saw a big EASTERN AIR LINES sign, and knew I was at the wrong
airport. I went back to apc freq, and a very embarressed controller was
waiting nervously for me to come back. He vectored me to Newark (EWR) by
mistake. Thank God it was 3AM and not 3PM.

Автор Mark Emanuele ( назад)
I will NEVER FORGET the first flight after getting my license. I was flying
out of TEB, and I flew to AVP and back. On the way back I got cleared thru
the NY TCA (as it was then called). It was very late (about 3am) and the
controller was vectoring me around, and I was not quite sure where I was.
They handed me off to TEB tower, but gave me EWR's Tower freq. I called
TEB, and asked for RY lights on the ry they cleared me on (What I say
outside was not right) (COntinued)

Автор AV8R ( назад)
good catch Delta

Автор notafanboy (1523 года назад)
Good catch. Also, it took tower almost a full minute to give Aerogal an
altitude to climb to after issuing the initial go-around instruction. The
climb through 2000 is a very quick one during a takeoff or go-around and
easy to bust if tower doesn't assign it right away. Of course, Aerogal
could have questioned the controller, as well. Unfortunately, as good as
these controllers here in NY are, they're still humans.

Автор kewkabe ( назад)
The controller made it worse by telling him "fly runway heading" (while
there was somebody rolling down the runway), then in the same transmission
"you need to start a right turn" (which is non-standard phraseology and
likely to be confused especially with foreign pilots). He should have said
"go around, fly heading 180." And yes I'm a controller.

Автор Daniel Mori ( назад)
Four clusters of lead-in lights going for the left side, two clusters for
the right side. I suppose those are the best references for pilots flying
the approach.

Автор Mark Emanuele ( назад)
I have flown that approach many times, and the first time I did, it was a
little confusing as to where the runway was. Ry 13 L is quite a distance
from 13 R. Still no excuse, If you look at the approach plate it becomes
obvious which is which especially when you look for the approach lights...

Автор IdTube ( назад)
Now, that is a bad place to realize that you don't know how to distinguish
left from right =).

Автор Lucas Wolfrey ( назад)
YUP, they've been using the same ATC system since the early 60's i believe.
But not to worry, the FAA will implement a new system... eventually

Автор RIXLAZZZ ( назад)
lol he is pissed at that french pilot

Автор Edward Francis Hayes ( назад)
lol. george carlin?

Автор babytweeze85 ( назад)
Why do they title it/call it a "near miss"? It's a near HIT. A COLLISION is
a 'near miss'. *BOOM* Oh look, they nearly missed....

Автор radtech21 ( назад)
"You make a mistake, you start thinking about the mistake, you begin to
make more and more errors. This is a very familiar syndrome. We call it
'checkitis' in aviation." -John Nance From 37:48 on PBS Nova's "The
Deadliest Plane Crash."

Автор radtech21 ( назад)
@efastMixer Yeah, I noticed that as well, BIG F* up by the Aerogal pilots
but definitely NOT helped by conflicting ATC instructions.

Автор marchesedesade89 ( назад)
For people who has in mind hundreds of checklists and who's able to fly a
plane, a left or right mistake is HUGE!

Автор tiverton (1758 лет назад)
The nicer you are to New Yorkers the more they will be rude to you. You
have talk to them the same aggressive way as they talk to you from the
start, then they treat you with respect. JFK, and entire New York Approach
for that matter, are no different.

Автор Jerzy Daszkiewicz ( назад)
How much ATController average salary at such airport? Job seems to be a
little bit stressful.

Автор Martin Riviere ( назад)
I feel bad for this guy, in the airport im training a private pilot lost
his license because he crossed the line! he was told to hold short runway
13 and he crossed it, so i dont know what happened to this guy, i guess he
lost his license or at least he got grounded, you can't mistake runways
like that, anyway this pilots were flying an old 767 from ecuador. Any
pilot that flies that 767 for about 8 hours has to be really tired at the
end, he was really scared the atc wasn't helping the guy :(

Автор ProPainC63 ( назад)
Welcome to NY bitch.

Автор Marco g ( назад)
the pilot of the airline removed the license by the civil aviation
authority of Ecuador

Автор Darth Belal ( назад)
@msk7046 what it means is that the Aerogal pilot has to talk to the ATC and
the Controller is going to give him one hell of a verbal ass-beating. I'm
serious, that Aerogal pilot is going to go home with teeth marks and DEEP
boot impressions all over his ass. I'd hate to be him!

Автор Daniel Mori ( назад)
@JiS01 This does NOT happen every day.

Автор Daniel Mori ( назад)
@JiS01 Absolutely NOT the same pilots involved.

Автор Jonathan S. ( назад)
Wait, is that guy the same as the Egyptian guy for the other near miss at
/watch?v=Wtlfmvbp2jo ??? I think so, what an idiot OMG

Автор Jonathan S. ( назад)
I think this happens every day, too busy airport just a matter of time for
a collission CAN'T be averted!

Автор Daniel Mori ( назад)
@fastfiddler1625 "Line up and wait" was used worldwide, it made sense for
the US to go along and adhere to the same standard. I have also heard that
"position and hold" is believed by some to be too similar to "position and
go" - which isn't really standard phraseology, but could still be confused
by non-native English speakers: I don't know if this second interpretation
has any merit - I think the idea was simply to adhere to the worldwide
aviation English standard of "Line up and wait".

Автор Daniel Mori ( назад)
@fastfiddler1625 "Line up and wait" was used worldwide, it made sense for
the US to go along and adhere to the same standard. I have also hear that
"position and hold" is believed by some to be too similar to "position and
go" - which isn't really standard phraseology, but could still be confused
by non-native English speakers: I don't know if this second interpretation
has any merit - I think the idea was simply to adhere to the worldwide
aviation English standard of "Line up and wait".

Автор fastfiddler1625 ( назад)
To the guy who mentioned this. The phraseology "Line up and wait" has
replaced "position and hold". I don't know why, to me "position and hold"
sounds more professional.

Автор jfsa380 ( назад)
those aerogal pilots are like, "wait, what?" they are soooo slooooow

Автор comcfi ( назад)

Автор James' Adventures ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals Being a pilot myself, the FAA changed this back in the fall
of 2010. The reason for this is that everyone else in the world uses "Line
up and wait." Being part of ICAO, we strive to have consistency throughout
aviation around the world. Also, because english is not some of the pilots'
first language, "Line up and wait" is clearer and more direct, believe it
or not.

Автор FlyingPhoAddict ( назад)
@msk7046 Yeah tower told him to call so this guy could complain more.

Автор Mike Stephens ( назад)
@Eheld786 ---May I ask what that means? ('I bet that guy got the phone
number to call')..... Thanks.

Автор risen25 ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals how long did it take you to find out how to use the words
profound and sophistication in a sentence.

Автор oneofthemdeals ( назад)
@zseartcc25 u just showed who's child like with those classy profound words
u just came up with. u showed a lot of sophistication.

Автор risen25 ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals LOLOL so let me guess your some wanna pilot who has never
touched the controls of an aircraft and who thinks he knows all right? Im
guessing your some young 16 year old prick kid who has no clue what the
fuck he is talking about. I answered your question grow some nuts and take
it vagina. get real. Only kids make comments like that on youtube.

Автор oneofthemdeals ( назад)
@zseartcc25 tell me something i dont f-ing know - jackass

Автор risen25 ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals FAA new REG. All Airports across the country does it.

Автор TheRaptor3945 ( назад)
At 2:39, it looks like the AF011 pilot voice. Maybe it's not... but it
looks like a voice with a little french accent.

Автор Karl Mathias Moberg ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals "Position and hold" has been used in the US for decades, it
was changed this summed to "line up and wait".

Автор oneofthemdeals (817 лет назад)
@rjmwebdesign you can stop looking like a hero. i got ALL the comments
about line up and wait. no need to jump in and flood my inbox with someone
i already know

Автор Hayden Young ( назад)
@oneofthemdeals They Changed it Line up is corect

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